Cemal Ozdemir joins Allison Felus on the I’ll Follow You podcast for a wide-ranging conversation about leaving a 30-year accounting career to build Ozwell Fitness in Carmel — the philosophy, the recovery, the community, and the leap of faith behind it. Lightly cleaned for readability.
Allison: Allison, you are listening to, I'll follow you a podcast about creative process and what really goes on behind the scenes of an artistic life. My name is Allison Felus, and I love talking to musicians, writers, visual artists and other brilliant thinkers about their working methods, obsessions and pet projects. Guess what? Just by tuning in, you are part of the inner circle now. Okay, you are in for a treat. Today, I am so excited to share with you my conversation with my very dear, very funny and very brilliant friend, jem i osdemir. Jem I spent nearly 30 years with the firm Dabi O'Connor and Zaleski D O Z a leader in affordable housing and real estate accounting. He started there as an intern in 1993 and ultimately became chief executive officer in early 2020 he then stepped down in 2022 to focus exclusively on his newest project, Ozwell fitness, an elevated wellness studio that combines the two core elements of wellness, fitness and recovery into a single, seamless experience. Gemma has a degree in Business and Accounting from Indiana University, and has also taken over 2000 group fitness classes with orange theory cycle bar fit flex. Fly shred 415, peloton tread and bike fly, wheel and Soul Cycle, as well as several 100 hours of personal training. But more importantly, for our purposes, here today, gem, I was also the lead actor and impresario behind the Chicago production higher grounds. This was a live sitcom on stage concept that you'll hear us talk much more about in depth throughout the episode. He and I originally knew each other through our mutual affiliation as actors with the Lake Central theater guild, but we became much closer when I came on board as a script writer for higher grounds, and ultimately his de facto personal assistant. So names and references are going to start flying fast and furious right off the bat. So just to orient you a bit more before we get started, the lows are Paul and Angie Lowe, the directors and founders of the Lake Central theater guild, who I also interviewed for this podcast way back on episode 14 in April of 2020. Keith and Brenda are Keith Underwood and the late Brenda Palazzolo, who are tech experts from the Lake Central theater guild who knew everything there was to know about running lights and sound and building sets. And so all these references and more will be available in the show notes at my website, Queen of peaches.com, but now let's hear gem I talk about how exactly a gym is like a sitcom, the importance of community, people coming to LA to dream, the power of being the sidekick, how to properly pronounce his first name with or without a Turkish accent, and Learning to focus on what you're good at. And now my conversation with jemi Oster,
Allison: it's happening the man, the myth, the legend, John, I asked Mayor, he's here. I'm so excited. I'm so excited to have you here, because I feel like, secretly, you are the perfect person to be on this podcast. Like, when I think of like a person who lives incredibly creatively, but that's not necessarily, quote, unquote, your job. I mean, obviously we'll get into it, and we'll get into sort of, like, the creativity. Like, the creativity of what you do, but your numbers guy, but yet you live so creatively. You do all these amazing creative projects. And so I feel like that's the essence of what I've been wanting to talk about on this podcast. So it's like, ideal to have you here. So welcome aboard.
Cemal: Thank you, Allison. It's awesome to be here. You know. I love you so much. We've known each other for a long time, and I'm saw that Facebook post, and I was like, I want to do that for her. That's she's done so much for me. You've done so much for me. As your listeners should know me and Allison know each other for a long time, high school. And then I did this thing, and we'll which we'll talk about, and I asked her to be my right hand. She's like, I'm in and you could not have been a better right hand in that time period. It was you just believed in me, and you followed me. And if I asked you to climb out the fire escape and run down and get a bagel. You're like, all right, all that. It was fucking great, and I loved you for that. It helped me as a leader, because you believed in me, right? So it was like, so great to have someone be like, whatever that motherfucker says, I'm doing it. And, you know, like, and so that's what I felt like with you. And. Like you trusted me, and he probably went back to your friends. But this, he's gonna do this. I gotta do that. I'll follow him right or right, wrong or indifferent, and you know, to an extent, obviously. So thank you so much, and I'm happy to do this, and
Cemal: I'm excited for you, for this new adventure. For you,
Allison: yeah, I'm excited to have you here. So let's just give us the capsule at the top to start, because I'll, I'll read your bio and stuff, you know, but give us the capsule of of, yeah, who you are and what you do and what you're doing now, so that when we, when we take the long view and go retrospective, it kind of gives, give some excitement about, like, how did he get all the way to there from where he started?
Cemal: I mean, we could start from, you know, I'm born and raised in Northwest Indiana, just like you, Lake Central. Then I went to IU, and then, you know, and IU, I didn't, you know, I did a lot of theater, like we've talked, like we'll talk about and that I wanted to do that, but I knew that financially didn't make sense. And then I was like, Okay, I'll do a business degree. So I went to IU and did that, got an internship and an accounting firm where I ended up being the seventh employee there. Ended up there for 30 years. And I did two and I left for two years at 96 I went to LA to be an actor where, and I never stopped working for this accounting firm. They funded me while I was out there, and then I moved to Chicago, where we did our play in 97 which they also funded. And I paid back, but they helped pay for that, and but I was able to work out my dreams of acting and all that stuff, and get that out of my system, where I ended up back here in Indianapolis in 98 and then I did, you know, I went hardcore with the accounting firm for The next whatever that is, 30 years, 25 years. And then, you know, and then I be I had four kids, divorced again, you know, four kids that are now 1012, 1416, three girls. Youngest is a boy. I have them half the time. I'm doing that all the time. I left. I became the CEO of the accounting firm in on January 6, 2020, let that settle in for a second. I was in charge of 250 people. And, you know, I had 12 new partners, and I was taking over from a firm the two guys that started the firm. I was the only non CPA in the group of 13 of us. And you know, then two months later, COVID starts, so you have all that to deal with. And so then after that, I moved in that kind of ended on ceremoniously, and I started, but while at the same time I was talking about, I was thinking about opening a gym which we can get into as well. And so that's where I am now. I'm about 30 days out from opening this gym that combines fitness, group fitness and recovery, so basically cycling, yoga and hit classes, combined with recovery, like saunas, red light therapy, cold plunge and cryotherapy and compression therapy. So back in the back in the day, not back in the day, but I've been working out for last 10 years or so. And as you get older, your body can't recover as quickly or as efficiently as it did when you were younger. And I was so I started doing IVs and going to recovery places around town, but it was just taking too long. And so I'm like, Well, I wonder from anywhere that combined these two things, and I looked in Indy, there was nowhere in Indy, and frankly, there's really nowhere that does it efficiently in the country. So I'm like, Well, I'll try it. So it's really similar. So it's ironic that you are interviewing me now, because it's this process. Project is very similar to our project in 97 right? Like, I
Allison: basically say that, yeah, it 100% is,
Cemal: it's like, this is, like his method, or whatever you want to call it. But yeah, it's so cool to like for you to interview me, because you know how my mind works, based on on higher grounds, and you know, when we did the play, which was, you know, which was a very unique thing. But so for your listeners, the play was the idea was a sitcom on stage, and we were doing, we were going to
Cemal: write the whole, this is an amazing idea, and I wish it would have worked, because it's such a good idea. So okay, I will, I will stop you, describe it. Let you talk about it.
Cemal: You describe it. I mean, you did it too. So what was it from? Your
Allison: eyes. Yeah, it was exactly what you just said. It was a sitcom on stage, and so it was. I just thought it was the best idea, because rather than seven o'clock on a Thursday night, turning on your TV, seven o'clock on a Thursday night, you make your way down to a theater in Chicago, or, you know, ideally, it would have spread to other cities too, but you go to the theater and you watch a show that has characters that you've gotten involved with, there's commercials, quote, unquote, for local businesses that were performed by um, local improv comedians. So genius way of sort of like getting other sort of acting people and skill sets involved, while also hyping up local businesses. And then a great troop of actors, great troop of writers, you know, writing the scripts. And yeah, then it was because I forget, was it going to, like, run every two weeks and then flip to a new script? I forget, what the the
Cemal: Yeah. I mean, that was the idea that, you know, we obviously, you and I sat in my apartment talking about this over and over again, but, like, yeah, the idea was just to, like, Okay, we'll do, we'll change it, episode every two weeks, and we'll, like, try to get, you know, as many people through. And then we'll do, and then we could do reruns. And we had the theme song. I mean, we just got in the credits and, like, everything, like, like, this is it was fun. Like, as it was unfolding, doing it right. Like, like, this is pretty sweet. Like that. We could do that. And then the theme song, everything as it was developing, you're like, This is sweet. This is great. And then, you know, we hit opening night on october 17, which I totally remember. It was october 17. And, you know, I mean, lot of people there, first nights and, and, you know, and then Brenda and Keith came and did all the, you know, all the techie stuff, and we had all those connections. So we had all the pieces. It's, which is the same with my gym I had, I've been working out for so long. I have all the pieces. I know the trainers. I bought the building. I know lots of I've been doing it for a long time, so I know the score. So it was fun to like do all that. And then, you know, then you get panned by the Sun Times and the tributes, like, what the fuck is this like? What are you doing? This idiot is putting game stopper. Is that? What it was those game was it game gamekeepers. It was, was the, was the bar, game keepers. And then that, that HR firm, not the there was a placement agency that was the other company that bought time on the on the stage for the commercials. And I just like, I mean, I thought it was incredible that these, these guys just paid me $2,500 each to advertise for the week because they thought it was genius too. I'm like, Okay, this is cool. People are buying into it. And, you know, it was just the the, I think at the end of the day, the costing, the cost model was the revenue model was just like, it wasn't well thought out. As I look back, you know, the theater only sat maybe 5060, people. I mean, obviously doing writing is very difficult, and writing it well is very difficult. And we have all those personalities, right? Remember, all the writers, and we had Dan, all the actors, and they had their ideas, and the writers had their ideas, then you have the improv group they had, you know, which was a separate entity, but they had their thing that they were doing. And obviously I had my ideas, and you were just like, trying to support me and and so it was a, it was a hard thing to manage. And, you know, when I look back, I don't think I gave it enough time, but at the same time, I didn't have enough money to keep it going. I just couldn't keep it going. It was just like, but I look back on those times and it's and again, it's ironic that you and I are back here talking about something very similar, like, it's, it's, you know, it's pulling together, you know, it's pulling together fitness and and recovery into one place, and trying to make it efficient, right? Like, and trying to make it different, you know, I'm not trying to recreate the push up or the sit up, you know. I'm just trying to package it differently. So I wasn't trying to recreate TV or theater. I'm just trying, let's, are we bored with it? Can we try something different, you know? And that's kind of where that came from.
Allison: It should have worked. It should have worked. It was such a brilliant idea. Well, let's, let's wind things back to, yeah, sort of where it all started and where we both connected originally. So the Lake Central theater guild, which is it was the theater of our home town and the the community theater, but it was also the theater of the high school that we both went through. And so, yeah, it was, it was, you know, during the year, during the school year, it was theater for the kids who were enrolled in school. And then during the summertime, and sometime over when, sometimes over winter breaks too, it would open up to the. The community, yeah, to other other folks who are older and had graduated, or people who just had never gone through the school. But yeah, so you started, when, when did you start? Like, how, what was your first show? You know, you said older than I am, so we never actually went to school together, but we just knew each other through the school, through the theater program, through your dad and through my dad, who did that with the theater program, yeah, yep.
Cemal: So my first show, when you sent me that, you sent me an email and said, Hey, this is the things I want to talk about. When you started asking me them, these questions. Start tearing up because I'm like, Oh my God. Like, you started, like, when was the first time I, like, thought I was funny? Or, like, you know, because I'm funny. I mean, I know that I was, like, funny guy people. Okay, so I didn't know this until sixth grade grammar Miss berkey's class, like, stood up to tell a story, and I was really just trying to show up for Diana rink, who I was massive crush on Diana rink, and she was at the other end, and I could see her smiling. I think she knew that I had a crush on her. Again, I was nasty, like the bush hair and crooked teeth and like, my one eyebrow to unibrow. You know, I have a hairline for that. You can't see this, but I had a hairline. It was a seating hairline, like my hairline went down instead of going, like, up and, like, back, like, like most guys do. So anyway, I stand up. And I don't remember the what the story was, but I told the story, and the whole class like was genuinely dying. And I know I remember it was about a tree, but that's all I remember. And so I'm like, sitting there going, that's fun, you know, that's fun to make people laugh. So, you know, and and I and I was likable, and so you so I made my way in my first show I did with, with Miss Simmons in eighth grade, did the eighth grade grammar show. And so that was great. And I was like, and I was always playing the character, like, the, you know, what that kind of, the throw away, the funny character, right? Like the the laugh. What do you call those? What do you call that character? You know, the one that just comes in and the sidekick, yeah. So I came in and I was doing that, and I was, I was coming in, getting the lap, and then the serious people did all the serious stuff in between. So that was the beginning. And then I got, obviously, freshman year. And then, you know, my freshman year was when I did Lake Central's first show. My first show was, and you get your gun, which was years ago. I
Allison: was in that show. I was one of the little kids. And yes, you were the kid here, yeah,
Cemal: because that was, yeah. There was no funny in there. It was just enough to be get involved. And you want to be part of a community, right? This is where I think I got a lot of my my feeling for this gym is from, like, a community like, before COVID We, I was part of, part of many gyms, and the community was so, like, just, it was everything, right? It is everything. And that all began with the theater and with the lows and the work that we had to put in there, right? Like, I mean, the work, it was just incredible amount of work. I keep talking, you know, when we were in it, we would be so fucking pissed we were there till two o'clock in the morning on a Wednesday. We had school next day with this, and I look back on those times, like, Man, those like, when we went on opening night, we were so prepared, like, like, I will never, like, be able to, I'll never be able to replace that, like, work ethic that was instilled in me and literally 1000s of people they've touched because you felt so confident going up with your lines and your blocking that you could focus on just being like, I'm gonna try this tonight. I'm gonna try that tonight. You know, like, whatever it was you knew that you knew that you were gonna be able to, like, get back to it. You knew you weren't, like, sitting there going with my line, What's My Line, What's My Line, because that was just not gonna You were not that was not gonna happen. So it was great.
Cemal: Theater was such a massive
Cemal: building block for me, you know. And so making people laugh and like, then, you know, as by freshman year, you had Riley and you have Pete balchunas, you had, like, these people were, like, legit talented, like they were, you know, your dad. I don't what some of my favorite things about the theater at that time was after the show closed, and we would have those parties at like, after the in the cafeteria, and Mr. Lowe would run those improv things, and Riley and Allen Smith and your dad would get in a piano, I'm like, and they would come up, I'm getting chill singing. It was incredible. Like these people do not belong in a high school cafeteria. These people belong in Chicago or New York. They are, it was and like to this day, whose line it is in, Whose Line Is It Anyway, is my favorite show ever, which is that improv show. It's incredible what they come up with with, you know, a piece of paper, a pen and and, you know, you. Uh, California socks go right like, it's incredible. So I had a lot of that started, you know, my journey with, with theater, and, you know, I was a sports guy too, so I was good at basketball, relatively good. But that soon passed, and I was with the choir and and that and counterpoint, which was the show choir stuff. And I loved all that stuff. I didn't really care what anyone really thought, you know. Like, I still had all my my friends that were, you know, the popular kids, or what do you want to call me, and my jock friends. I had the theater friends and the choir friends. I didn't really care, you know. So I just wanted to make people laugh, and I did that relatively easily. And then, and then I was like, Okay, well, as you parlay that into college, and you're like, Okay, I'm not gonna be able to make a living at this. My dad wasn't crazy about me doing all that stuff. But so you get into college, I'm like, Okay, I'm gonna major in business, I'll do that and and then I'll do acting on the side. And then I, and I did, I did the theater in the summers, you know, as we did, we did the summer shows. And so that was my routine for the next four years. I would go down IU in Bloomington, come home for the summer and do one or two shows, whether it was a musical or the straight or the, you know, the this ratio
Cemal: that led me to, you know, into
Cemal: into my career. And then I just kind of, and then I just kind of left it. And then I said, Okay, well, maybe I should move to LA, which I did in 96 so after the, which we call busy season in the accounting world. I said, after busy season, I'm going to after the 9596 busy season, which ended in April, April 15, right? I said, I told my guys that I work for I'm not going to leave you, but after busy season and we slow down, I'm going to move to LA and I become an actor. And they're like, What? Alright, yeah, hang on, that's what I want to do. I go, you know? And at that time, I was doing a lot of business development for them, and I was successful. And they said, Okay, well, how about this? How about we pay you 30 grand a year. You just go to LA and do your auditions and make cold calls for us during the day, like, what? So that was a great deal, right? They, like, they funded my LA time. And I, you know, I mean, I'll never it worked out because during the day, I was cold calling everyone in my industry, so, and then I was auditioning at night, so I was, it was due, and I was on and became an, I was an extra on Seinfeld, and Mad About You and single guy and Melrose Place and all these different shows. And I met a lot of great people. I auditioned with a lot of great people. And I think about that now, like when I think about, like, Dax Shepard, and I listen to his podcast all the time, and I hear him talk about when he moved to LA which was right around the same time I did. And he talks about so I'm like, and I did the Groundlings and all that stuff out there. And I'm like, and he did the Groundlings around the same time I did. I'm like, I mean, I probably did shows with a lot of these people. I know I did. You know what? I mean, I was probably in their world at some point in time, and they just obviously made it further than obviously I did. But the good thing about all that was, I got it out of my system. That was really the key I got. The key was I was on Seinfeld. Was as big as Seinfeld as everyone was at the time. And yeah, there is a shot of
Allison: you can see Gemma's back pushing against Michael Richards when he's like, getting into a train car or something, right? There's whatever you can Google.
Cemal: You can google morning train Seinfeld on YouTube, and you'll see me. I'm wearing a blue shirt and a black vest. You'll see it. You can I'll put
Allison: it, I'll put it in the show link. You'll be able to click on your features.com when you go to my show notes, yeah, I'll have it up there.
Cemal: And so I did that. I was on that set for 18 hours and and I also did Ellen's show. She had a sitcom I was on that which was in front of a live studio audience. So I had both, because the Seinfeld one was not in front of a studio audience, and Ellen was was in front of a studio audience. So I got the feeling of both, right? And Ellen's atmosphere and community was awesome, right? She said everyone was really great. And we got, I ate with everyone, like we were just one of the group. It was great. Simon was great too. It was like we sat there and like I was, we were in the audience while they were doing those scenes. And lot of the scenes, if you watch that show, it's a man hands episode, I watched that girl, which was a guy's hands crack the lobster and Jericho, those, are, you know, like he was just like a the girl twisted off the the beer cabs and Jericho. That's not a twist stop, like, like that, that I saw all that happen live. I saw Kramer doing, um, practicing getting water from the water cooler. And like he did, like, 85 different ways to do it right. And like you. I watched all of it, him develop it the way he was doing it anyway. I was sitting there. I'm like, I mean, this is great, but this is not like, creative like, this is for me, it wasn't like, I'm like, do I really want to, like, navigate? I mean, this is the best of the best of the best. This is Seinfeld. Like, this is 97 signs it was well on its way to being what it is and what it was. So after that, it kind of like, you know, then this idea about the sitcom on stage came up, and I was running it through all my theater friends and my acting friends in LA, and they're like, that's a great idea. You should do it here. I'm like, yeah, I gotta do it here. I'm gonna do in Chicago. And they're like, You're not leaving. You should be. You can 100% make it. So I almost didn't leave LA, because I had a lot of people, like, I had agents that were like, Are you sure you want to do this? Because we are ready to sign you, and all this stuff. Like, oh, yeah, I get it. I just, this is calling me. This is this, is this, this is calling me out to Chicago. And I just feel more I wasn't, I was I didn't feel myself there. You know, LA was like, am I going to raise a family here? And been la many, so many times since then. And it's just, just wasn't me. I just, you know, I wanted to be true to that, like I It wasn't me. I loved everyone that I met. But really, most of the people there, it's a transient city, right? People are coming there to dream and like, it's just constant. And I'm, I was one of them, you know, I was, I came in and out of there. So it was a really cool time in my life. And then, because
Allison: that was one of my big questions, was it like, I didn't remember, I didn't remember how long you were out there, and what it was that finally brought you back to the Midwest, like, I couldn't remember if it was that you felt like, yeah, that there was no, no place to move up, or, or if you just gotten frustrated with the scene, but that that makes sense, that you were like, Yeah, I don't want to just sit here. You know,
Cemal: I didn't, you know, I was definitely navigating it. I was auditioning all the time. Um, I it just wasn't it. It wasn't resonating, for some reason, right? I didn't, just wasn't I wasn't feeling it. And that's interesting,
Cemal: because it's like, sometimes you have to go out and try to see what it feels like. Because, again, like, how would you, how would you have known otherwise you were, like, I'm a performer. I've done theater, I've done all this stuff, like, so of course, you know, the natural extension is, like, go to LA, try to make it, try to be an actor, and it's and then you get there and you realize, like, Wait, this isn't quite what I thought.
Cemal: No, exactly. And in retrospect, I probably would have ended up being a producer or executive, like, because that's how, really, my mind works as, like, a business person, like, how do I turn this into a bit like, that's really, what am I a good performance? Sure, I'm fine. I could read lines. I have a good timing. I could do all that. But
Allison: also being a good performer is part of why you're such a good executive, right? I mean, because you have the personality, you have the razzle dazzle that a lot of, sort of like, quote, unquote numbers guys don't have.
Cemal: Well, certainly in the accounting field, I, you know, people would say you're an accountant, like, Well, I mean, I'm not really an accountant, but I did accounting for a long time. I did a lot of the parts that, short of issuing stuff that needed the CPAs name on it, but I did the sales, right? So I did the I went out and developed relationships. Like accounting was not, is not a you don't switch accounts like that, right? I got you have, I assume you have insurance with someone, right, like car insurance, and you probably had the same guy. You've had him forever, right? Right? Exactly. It was no different than accounting for the stuff that we do. I go in and talk to someone that has $100,000 worth of accounting work. Well, they've been using a guy for 15 years. I'm like, Yeah, I got it. I get it, but I do this too, and when you're ready to switch, just that's all, just call me. So my mojo was just go to these same conferences and see the same people and not talk about accounting, just be me. I do karaoke and hang out and talk about cubs and whatnot, and just be friends like and then when they go, hey, you know what, right? I don't really suck last year, we're going to bid it out this year. Okay, cool. I bring out my group. We would bid on it. We would win it. We would not we, you know, some 50, probably 50% we would, we would hit. And, you know, we went from a million bucks to 30 million in 30 years so, and I wasn't responsible for a lot of that, so it was so that was the rhythm I got into, right? Met Kelly, my wife at at that time. And, you know, we have four kids, and then life happens. We got divorced and whatnot and so, but that was my that was my grind and theater and all that was out. I was done with all that.
Allison: But again, I think that, like the the connection that I want to make here, you know, is that, like, you were still using your creative talents. It was like, on the surface, it like, yeah, it looks like daily grind, doing your job. But it was this ethos of you. Be funny, be charming, you know, put out a little show, put a little extra care into it. Be the charisma guy, you know, be the sidekick. You know, as as far as, like you said, like you didn't have a CPA, so you were the CPA sidekick, but it was made a huge, huge difference, like you said, in building these relationships. So I think that there's, again, there's a way of looking at this where, yeah, none. None of that experience is wasted, you know? Oh
Cemal: no, yeah, I have no regrets.
Cemal: I have very few regrets in my life at all, if any, really, and, and the one I would say I use a lot is when I was in college, I didn't join a fraternity, and I was, I always say, like, you know what? I wish I would have joined because of network of people I could have met through that. But either way, I don't like, and that's just like, if I have to give someone one, that would be probably one, the other one was, maybe I was, I was asked to be an extra on ER, and I was like, which one? Er was like, George Clooney was on it the whole like, the main cast was, and everyone was, don't go do, er, it's the worst 12 hours of your life. And I'm like, so I like, you know, because it's so hard, all you're doing is standing around in scrubs all day and, like, all right, I won't, and in my head, I'm like, Why did I do that? Because I know that George Cooney played basketball in between scenes, and I would have been, could have been there. And I people say that at that time it looked like, it like, because we had the same hair, the same features, like, maybe I could have been at stand in or whatever, like I was like, kind of like, I, those are my two regrets. But, yeah, no, you're not wrong. Where you where you're talking about being the sidekick at the CPA firm. It's really good, because I was and I was happy with it, because that's the role I feel I was good with that, you know,
Allison: which I also think is the way that you and I get along so well. It's because, like, I have the same mentality. It's like, Yeah, but throw me in coach, like, I want to be the sidekick. I want to help out. And so it's like, when it was your turn to step into the spotlight and doing, being the guy who was making the main decisions. I feel like, yeah, then I was able to fill that role for you and be the sidekick, you know, and come in when we were, when we were doing higher grounds, which we can transition into more later. But I think that there's like, yeah, I understand that vibe of kind of like, yeah, if I'm on the side, I can get a lot of done. You know that that helps move move things forward?
Cemal: Yeah, that's and it's important. Those roles are so important because we're not good at everything, right? Like, I'm not good at details, I'm not good at writing, I'm not good but I am good at, like, reading the room and I'm reading someone's body language, and, like, knowing when to push and when, like, no, no, we're not, you know, there yet. Like, this was the job forever. Like, you know, in my accounting world, like, like, I like, they're not ready. They're not ready. They're happy with who they got. I'm not going to push them anymore. Like, I'm just going to push them away. And I knew when, like, even with the pressure, like, hey, we didn't hit our numbers, I go, That's not my problem. I go, I can't i i can't i can only do so much, and I can only talk to so many people, and I can't force them to change when they're not ready to change. Said, like, and, you know, lucky for me, they were patient with all that, because some years would have killed it, and other years we didn't. And, you know, but net. Net been great. The firm is doing well. It's over 250 300 people in there. And you know, I'm proud to be a part of that. You know, we were the largest accounting firm that did affordable housing in the country. And, you know, I assume they still are. I don't know the score now, but like so it is a, you know, all that theater stuff, all that work ethic that the Lowe's put into us and Mr. Lewis put into us, I'm so, like, thankful for those times. And like, in my parents, like, I mean, that's a whole another, you know, scenario where they what they have done for me and and like, what they have done, forget about for me, what they have done, and been the example of what they have done in their lives and the risks that they've taken. I've taken some for men, like in this project, that I'm taking tremendous risk financially and like, you know, professionally, the whole nine yard, putting it all out, you know, like, here it is. Is, is been hard, but at the same time, I can look back at my parents. You want to touch on this or, I mean, you care, yeah, go for it. Go for it. So you know, my parents are immigrants from Turkey, and my dad both were born and raised in Turkey, and my dad when he's 19. And I could get this wrong, if he listens to this, he's gonna be like, that's not how it not Jamal, you know. Like, he might say that, like, but, you know, but, but this is the way I remember, is that he remember him carrying a bucket of water, like, a distance that was too long to be carrying a bucket of water for. The family, and he's like, I'm getting out of here. And that was at 19, and he moved to Canada, or to Europe. It's been a couple years there, and spent a couple years in Canada, and ended up in Chicago and was working for a machine shop, and like, kind of like, okay, this works. That's why That's when he's like, that's when he felt like, Okay, I could I feel this. This is, this makes sense for me. Um, 27 years old, he moves. He goes back to Turkey to find my mom, goes to the village that he grew up in and he was going to marry someone else. And he's like, I don't want to marry you. I want to I don't want to marry her. I want to marry you, which is my mom, who was 15 at the time. Okay, so 27 and 15. Two weeks later, they get married. Two weeks after that, my mom and dad moved back to Hammond, uh, Hammond, Indiana, and so, yeah, you got my mom, who is 15, you know, and her dad says, Yeah, take her to America. Who's that doesn't who's never left, you know, her village of Marisa, phone ever. As far as I know, and then moves to Chicago, doesn't speak English, doesn't know how to drive, doesn't barely know my dad, and takes that risk my mom does. And then my dad is doing, you know, working all day. And then they have, she has me at 16, as my brother at 18 has my sister at 20. Like, what the, what the is going on right now? Like, that's like, like, Ella is my, I have a 15 year old. She could be moving to, I don't know, Tokyo right now, with a guy, I'd be like, thinker, it's fine. Three kids that are Japanese and, like, that's the same thing. It's just like a crazy it's and they're still together, 51 years later, 52 years later, right? Like, so, like, that's their anniversaries this month. And so I think about my dad. And so he started a machine shop and and he was responsible for bringing lots of Turks into Northwest Indiana, setting them up, showing them the way, getting them jobs that paid well, even though you didn't speak English, because you didn't need to speak in English, and to work in the mills and to work in machine shop, just needed labor. We needed,
Cemal: like, drill shit and work 12 hours. And, you know,
Cemal: so they did. He did that, and he brought a lot of people over. Then he started his own machine shop. And then he came up with an idea. An 84 we were gonna get a pool. We lived in Pine Island, Cherryville, Crown Point on everyone who knows where we lived, right? Good region. And he goes, I want to put a pool in, but I'm not going to do it unless I can cover it. Is he talking about, right? Like, like, cover it's like, yeah, it's cold in Chicago. We can only use a pool for like, two months. And, like, I want to cover it up, like, a dome. I want to put a dome over it. I'm like, All right, dad. Well, next thing you know, he's got this dome over our pool, and now we're using it for six months out of the year. 40 years later, my brother now runs the dome business. I'm putting a dome on the back of my building for the gym which we're gonna have indoor and outdoor workouts. It's, it's one of a kind. It's nobody is going to be able to do indoor and outdoor workouts.
Cemal: It's just, you know, and like, it's like, it's come full circle.
Cemal: And, you know, my parents have been,
Cemal: yeah, Lee, I mean, such an inspiration. You know,
Cemal: I watched a lot of ups and downs we were, we went bankrupt, and we were scraping for money at that point. And, and because there's, you know, you do whatever you can for the business, and then you know, you're back up and, and, you know, my mom stuck with him and all through all of that stuff, and stuck with, oh, you know, we all stuck together, you know.
Allison: And he shielded full name in Turkish, because you're gem I ever jem i, jem i, jem i. Everyone knows who's done my you even spell it often as G, E, M, I, but you're but say your name. So
Cemal: my like, I don't even, I can't even say my name, right, right? Because I like, so people ask me, like, Jamal, right? Like, I don't have a Turkish accent, so Jamal, C, E, M, a, l is Jamal is my name, right? But like in kindergarten, no one could pronounce Jamal. It was sea mall, sea cow, camel, yeah,
Allison: C, E, M, a, l, but then yeah, with the with the
Cemal: C is like a J, that's ridiculous. I go any more ridiculous than laugh is l, a, U, G, H, but no, F's Exactly. It always baffles me. But anyway, yes, the C is like a J, Jamal, and for whatever reason in kindergarten, it was in kindergarten I changed my name from Jamal to gem. I not Jim, not John, like that would have been made more sense, right? Gem, I like semi and so that was it. What
Allison: it was all. Was it also influenced by, like, Return of the Jedi with Star Wars? Oh,
Cemal: no, okay, I wish I knew the answer. I always say, I always say, the Space Shuttle Gemini, I think, because I think that might have had something to do with it. Okay. Other than that, I really don't know where gem I came from or how it stuck. Because, like, what kindergarten teacher, Miss fredenberg. Why would she accept it and just like, like, go with it? I know that. So my name has been gem. I, so throughout high school, C, E, M, a, l would show up on the class roster, and everyone would get to it and go gem. I, yeah, but I never changed it to gem. I, G, E M, I, until I got to Hollywood, till I did the LA thing. And I'm like, Well, I can't do C ball here, because that's like, I gotta do gem I, and I would put that long eye on my headshot. Because, yeah, so yeah, a lot of people call me gemmy now. And like, Yeah, it's nice to be able to, like, explain it and have people say, okay, Gem I like semi okay, like Gemini, but either way, it's gem
Allison: Return of the Gemini. I love it. Okay, that's good. Yeah, 41:09 yeah. So,
Allison: all right, so you went to LA and your dad wasn't thrilled about it, because your dad's a businessman and wants you to be financially stable. And so then you have this idea I want to start, I want to take a sitcom, and I want to do it on stage, and I'm going to call it higher grounds, because, again, this was like the mid to late 90s, like 9697 when sitcoms were it. It was friends, it was Seinfeld, it was like that NBC block of Thursday night. TV, yeah, you know it was like, must see TV. Must see TV. That was, that was the thing that was culturally, what was really, really popular and really, really in and so, yeah, you wanted to translate this, though, instead of on screen, bring it to stage. So tell me about, yeah, how, how you were, like, okay, leaving LA, gonna set this up in Chicago. Like, tell me how it all started. Because, again, I kind of came in in the middle, and I was in this middle bit where, you know, I wasn't at the very beginning, and I honestly wasn't there at the very end either, because I was off at college by then, when it, when it kind of closed down.
Allison: Yeah, so I
Allison: so I want to know the full story.
Cemal: Look, I came up with the idea when I was in LA towards the end of my run there, which was short, I was going to do it there, but couldn't find a place. And really, my heart was wanting to do it in Chicago. It felt better to do it in a place like Chicago, that kind of thing.
Cemal: So I moved to Chicago like in March of 97
Cemal: April of 97 so I'm around there, and I just started putting it, putting the pieces together. I think I totally, I can't remember who I met, some what writers. I was like. I was talking to some people about it. I talked to the lows about it. They were excited about, like, helping me figure it out. And they donated teeth and Brenda's time to, like, come up with the sets and whatnot, and, and then I, honestly, I met that guy, John. Remember John and and, and so
Allison: a median writer, actor, yeah, yeah. Okay,
Cemal: yeah. I mean, like, I don't know what he's doing now, but somehow you
Allison: know what? Do you know what Scott Vinci is doing now, I was working, I was at my old job at the editing company that I worked for for like 20 years, and our HR department was showing us, like an industrial video about like sexual harassment in the office place. And Scott Vinci was in the industrial video social harassment in the office space, and I lost my mind. I'm like, sitting there in the conference room in the dark, like elbowing, like my friend next to me, being like, I know you guys. I mean, not that long ago, maybe six, seven years ago. I mean, I don't know how old the film was, like, I don't know if the film would have been older. You know, it didn't get particularly dated, I mean, but anyway, I was like, good for you, buddy. I'm glad you're still out there.
Cemal: Stuck with it, yeah. So those two guys, John and Scott, somehow we got connected. I don't know how, but we did. And then then we just got into a room and started writing these, like, I get told them my idea, they got into it. So that was kind of my gift. Was like, getting people fired up for whatever it is I was coming up with, right? Like, that idea was a one that they're like, this is different. Let's try this, right? And he's gonna pay for it. So that's cool. So we got that too, right? Because,
Allison: again, they were, they were comedians, they were trying to be actors like they were. They were in the scene. Yeah, at the time, John was
Cemal: great, because he would, he donated so much time. And, you know, really
Allison: smart guy. Yeah, he was, and he was lonely with me when I came on board. Yeah, exactly.
Cemal: I mean, you guys work well together. I mean, you work well with anyone, but because you're just normal. But like, you know. Like, so that snowballed, right? So then I think the four of us, or five us, like we just had constant writing meetings, and we came up with, like, four or five episodes,
Allison: right? Like, well, so what? So, what ended up happening, though, was it like, so again, talk about, like, your mom being 16, and, like, coming to the states, like I was 18, like I was a kid, and like I was graduating high school. And you like, like we were saying, you know, at the end of closing nights of our shows, this is how I remember it. Anyway, yeah, at the end of the closing nights of of the shows, the musicals, the spring musical at the high school, you know, especially the graduating seniors, would always do special little skits and stuff like that, yep, and to present to the rest of the the crowd and anyone who happened to be there after hours, you know, after everyone left. And I had co written a little thing with with my friend Casey, that was just like a, it was like a, it was like a fast forward remembrance of, like, all the shows that we had done, you know. So it was just like picking up all the like catch phrases and like funny bits that everyone remembered from the four years of theater that we had all done together. And so smushed them all together, and you were there that night, like you were there probably talking to the lows about what you wanted to do with higher grounds, and you happen to have seen it, and as as my memory goes, you know, you were talking to Paul and Angie, and you said, like, I need a girl. I, you know, I need a woman's voice in the writer's room. It was all dudes at the time. It was all these, these male comedians that you'd met in Chicago. And you were kind of, I don't know if you talk to me or ask the lows if I would be interested or something. And you were like, I would Felis want to, want to do this, because, you know, we knew each other a little bit, obviously true through the theater, but weren't, didn't know each other that well at the time. Yeah. And then I said, Sure, because again, I was graduating high school, and I wanted to be some kind of writer. And, you know, I had the summer that I wasn't, I think I actually had gotten cast in a production, a local production of nonsense. And I turned it down, like, because I was like, I want to go to Chicago, and I want to work with gem I and I want to, like, hang, hang out with all these, like, comedians, you know, in like, weird apartments in the city. And so I would would drive my busted little Chevy Lumina up Lake Shore Drive. And again, it's like, appalling to me now, like, at 18, you know, that I was like, on the road, no cell phone, this car, oh my god, breaking down, you know. And then just like, going to hang out in apartments with like, bunch of dudes in their 20s, you know? And it was just, and it was fine, though. I mean, it was like, I have time in my life. It was so awesome. Well,
Cemal: I love that perspective. I didn't know that perspective. I forget. I forget how, like, I mean, I just thought we just, like, ended up in my apartment, doing that, doing, like, sitting in an L, you know. And you know, me traveling, because I was still traveling for work, and I'd be like, you know, because I'm still doing that, the doz job, and then you know, you were doing, you were working for me, yeah, for free,
Allison: because it's well, because it started as I was contributing to the scripts, and I was helping with the scripts for the show. But then, like, as you and I got closer, you were like, can you help me with other stuff too, with, like, get Yeah, ready to actually put your show together. And so then, yeah, it was kind of amazing that, like, I was helping, you know, write, write these scripts. And, you know, again, it was, well,
Cemal: you're so professional, like you were, like, you presented yourself, like you are, like, literally, like, right now, like you're just like, normal and professional, like you get it. You were taking calls from, like, I was trying to sell the commercial spots. So you would probably take those calls and you would help me figure out all that stuff. And if I needed, if we needed, if the show needed, anything, you were you were there. You were one of the team members doing it, like
Allison: I remember is getting the auditions together, like at the Royal George, yeah. Like, I remember being there on audition day, and I was helping to check people in, you know, who were, who were coming to audition. But then, like, down the hall, I get, like, one of the monologs that I had written was being used for the audition. And I was like, Okay, this is really cool. I was like, I'm cool. Totally jazzing on this, yeah. So that was, like, headshots, and, yeah, yeah. It
Cemal: was cool to be on the other side, right. Like, this is how it feels, like, yeah, like to watch them, everyone come through. And then we, you know, we got that whole cast of people. I saw the higher grounds poster. So, yeah, I
Allison: mean, again, so there was the concept of, like, doing the sitcom on stage, but then the sitcom itself was called higher grounds, and so it was kind of like a riff on friends in some way, where it was like a coffee shop that was like in an old laundromat or something. And then so it was, you know, it was like all the characters that you would have, you know, where there was. Romantically. There was, like, the funny guy, you know, there was the weird guy, you know, yeah, then like, that tall guy,
Cemal: I remember that tall guy, I can remember his name, but he was very Kramer. Like, we kind of ripped off a lot of that stuff and, like, put it into put it into play. It was like, my life, right? Relatively, we were, like, kind of ripping on my life, because Jem,
Allison: I was also in it. Jemi was also the, which is probably the
Cemal: mistake, like that was probably the mistake I made in that, and not in, like, a self deprecating way, just more of, like, I should have just let the show like, because it was, it was not toxic. It's too strong. But it was, it was difficult with me in it, like, I couldn't, like, give, I couldn't give orders. Like, in a way, a business person would give orders, because then it came off as, like, you're getting, you know, no one could really stand up to that, like, like he's paying for it. So I guess would do what he wants to do, right, right? Dan stood up, you know, but, but, you know, the most, for the most part, it was, that was, look, and there's no big deal I learned from it. That was the mistake and, like, and going forward, like, in this gym that I'm doing, I'm not teaching classes, I'm I'm running the business. Like, I, like, I'm not, I'm going to be a consumer, right? Like, I should have just been a consumer of higher ground. I should have just been in the audience watching, okay, I don't like that, like this, like that, like chick deck, and let's go in this direction or that direction, you know? So, yeah, I mean that I haven't really talked about this whole thing and so long, it's kind of cool to, like, bring it back up to the surface, because I don't, I don't remember a lot. I mean,
Allison: well, and again, I mean, and I just, I can't, thank you enough. I mean, it was so formative for me. I mean, again, it was, you know, I was 18 into like, and to me again, like you were legendary, like in the theater, you know, it was like, oh my god, Joe, my the cool guy, you know. And the fact that you came in and were like, Yeah, let's go. Let's I respect what you do as a writer and as a professional person, and I like you as a human and it just set me up for everything. I mean, you know, just being able to go into my freshman year of college and feel like I had had this person who believed in me and wanted me in as an equal, as a writer, as a collaborator, as an assistant, as a friend, you know, I still, I still have a pair of gym shorts that I borrowed from you one night when I crashed on your futon.
Cemal: That's funny. Really,
Allison: I do, I swear to God, that's unbelievable. I mean, I don't wear them anymore. They're they're falling but, yeah,
Cemal: no, that's really nice to hear like that. Like, look, I mean, look. I mean, as a dad, I want to have impact, an impact like that with on my kids, right? Like, you want to have impact, you know, what is this all about if you don't have an impact on someone that goes off and does something better with themselves or their life and whatnot? Like, like, you know, I'm not trying to get all philosophical, but like, there's been so many moments in my in the last 20 years, like, what is this all about? What are we doing? Just getting coffee and dinner work, or counting coffee working gonna count? Like, it's just like, there's, there's been moments where I'm just like, there's gotta be more to all this, right? And like, knowing that we're impacting people. Knowing that I've impacted some people in a positive way, it's like, it's, it's nice to hear that. So thank you for sharing that. It's pretty cool to
Cemal: to know, but honestly,
Cemal: it was easy. I mean, you were an easy person to work with. You were, you know? I mean, again, you prompt me like you. You think I did for you. I mean, as equal you did for me as well. Because I was able to, like folk, I was able to, like, shove off a couple of things and be like, Okay, I don't have to worry about those anymore, because Allison got and that's what I did. You know, it was, that's the great thing about it was I was able to, like, just like, get focus on the next thing and then the next thing and then the next thing. I thing, because that's what I was good at. You know? I feel like I talked about this a lot during my doz years, like, let's just stay in our own lanes. Like, this is what I'm good at. Like, you do this and I'll do this. This is what I talked about with I want to talk about when we do the gym, like, I'm not going to teach a yoga class. I'm just going to take the class. I'm gonna give you no, I'll give you my suggestions. But like, look, I didn't I haven't taught yoga, and I just take it. I haven't taught a spin class. I just take them. I know it's worked. I don't know it's worked for me. I've seen that it works business wise, because these classes are full in LA, so I don't know. I'm mimicking that, and then we'll put our own spin to it. No, no pun intended.
Allison: See, Gemma is a funny guy coming up. I got the I got the good. So segues into, you know, one of the other things that, again, when we were, you know, sort of. Chatting over email and text and stuff leading up to talking today that like you, like you said, you know, it's like you, it's like you just were working and building your family. And, you know, felt like, what does it all mean? And what are we doing? But like again, from the outside, you know, it's like we see each other. When we see each other, we don't see each other at turn day to day anymore, but I would watch the way you use social media, and again, you're just so effortlessly creative that it was like, it was, yeah, it was like reading any really good website where I would, like, really look forward to, like, what are jemis updates? Like, even if it's just like, updates about your kids, you know, even if it was just really simple stuff about, like a funny exchange that you had at the airport when you were traveling for business or something. And so I felt like, again, like in, in that sort of mid 2010s era of when we were all very, very much on social media and consuming it like you were so good at it. So again, I just feel like your your creativity, it just, it flows very effortlessly out of you, that you, that you find ways to make even what might be a boring part of your day into something creative and into something fun, that, then again, does brighten people's day. I mean, because it's like, you know, I look at any of your posts even now. I mean, we've got just hundreds of likes and comments on them, because you, bring joy with the way that you do things and look at things.
Cemal: Oh, that's nice. That's a nice compliment. Look. I mean,
Cemal: I pride myself on not being and being taking a little bit more time and some of that social media stuff. I don't do it as much anymore, but I still, I am committed to doing all those notes that, those love letters, I'll call them about my kids. I know they get long, and I'm sure people just like, and that's fine, and I'm good with it, but I really do it for them. I'm excited for them to see these notes, like, because I've been doing them since they were born, right? So it's pretty not like, I'm excited, like, put them in a book and hand it to them on their wedding day or when they graduate or something, and they can, like, go and read each one of them and, but, you know, I mean it, yeah, the air I did air, I did this thing called the airplane Chronicles for a long time, yeah, and I, and I, like, you know, just I go back and read them. And this was early Facebook days. I was just like, post stuff, funny things that I saw like most like, you know, most comedians do like a version of their their perspective of traveling, and that's all, I mean, I try. I'm a million miler, and I've done I travel hundreds of 1000s of miles a year, every year for the last 30 years. So, I mean, I, I have a routine. And when you see something that kind of sticks out, you're like, Okay, I want to write about this. You know, you start typing about it, you just like, and then you kind of hone it. Like, I always think about Jerry Seinfeld when he gets interviewed and he talks about like, every word that he says on stage is planned every single word, like he there's no extra words that there is. He kind of takes that he like, reads it, he looks at it and goes, is that adding moving the story forward? Is that word, or is that sentence, or is that phrase? Is it moving it, moving the whole thing forward? He's like, I want to be as efficient as possible with this joke, right? This is similar. I like, I took that. I'm like, Okay, I want to make sure I don't waste people's time, right? Every sentence needs to, like, move things forward. That's what I did. I got a lot of good feedback on that. I remember there were several fans I had in that world that would send me, and they were like, they were all high school or like people, because, you know, we that was a circle. I wasn't like, viral or anything, but I, you know, Chris Bishop, some, a girl that we went to high school with, to a basketball player, she would just say, I can't wait until you travel again. I can't wait to hear some of these stories like and it was, and I wouldn't force it. That was, I think the other beauty of it was that I wouldn't force it. I would travel. And if something happened, it happened right? And I would write about it. But if it didn't, I was like, nothing. It was pretty seamless, and I wasn't complaining. I wouldn't complain about the airlines the way people complain about airline. Wouldn't do any of that stuff. It would just be about, like, whose armrest is I'm in the middle. I both of these armrests are mine. Like, unless I unless I say something, you have the window you got the I'm in the middle. Armrests are mine, right? So when that popped into my head, I'm like, okay,
Cemal: that's what I write about, right? So creativity, Speaker 1 59:33 is that like Scratch the performing itch for you then, or is it all kind of the same, same thing, like, do you think of that as like on a continuum, or is it kind of a substitute for performing? Or how does it? How does that feel to you? Did like
Cemal: all these years I would travel like So during my doz years, like the heaviest part of them, I would go to lots of conferences, and most of those conferences would turn into going to karaoke night and or sitting at a. Dinner table, and you know, you're telling the jokes. And I've been to many I've been to, and it's jokes. It's not really jokes of storytelling, right? This is similar to this, like, I don't tell jokes, I just tell stories. And so, you know, you tell a story, and sometimes you embellish. You have the energy. It's about an energy. And I enjoy that. I am see a lot of nonprofit events, a lot more before COVID. And it would be very improv, right? It would be very like, bring the audience into the into the mix. I would totally pull someone out or not and just talk to them about or we would, and I would structure it around, like, I don't know we would do this game called I did a I emceed local high school, Providence crystal Ray for 10 years, I emceed their main fundraiser. And one of the main things we did was we did this game called heads and tails, and it's basically you buy as a fundraiser, so you pay 10 bucks, and to get in the gig, you get 50% of it. And it's basically a coin flip, and you flip the coin, everyone stands up, and you pick a head or a tail, okay? And you flip the coin tails. If you have tails, you're in. If you had heads, you sit down, and you keep doing that until there's 10 people, and I bring those 10 people up on stage. So that's a very simple game, but I made the most out right? I would, I would bring people up, and I would hold that, I'd be like, I'd look at it, and it would be like, oh, like, you know, anticipating and like, and then I would do it right at the right time, and like, boom, everyone else. Okay, let's bring up the next group like, and then I would, we would be down to like, four or five people, and I would interview those people at that moment, right? And I would talk. And I would like, like, make fun of them is not the right word. But I would like, try like try to pull out funny parts of them, and if it wasn't working, I move on the next person and like. And if it was, it wasn't moving on that, okay, then we're gonna flip, because then we're ready to go. So I had a knack for and it's a gift like that to like, but to bring everyone together and like and have these moments, because I had many of those moments. That's why I got kept getting asked back to do that. Same with I MC, our JDR, my kids are type one diabetic. Two kids are type one diabetics, and IMC, that walk 3000 people, and the similar stuff, I just like the improv piece that I've developed over the years from Forever has paid off, and I use it and in ways that I, you know, that that for entertainment, that were for, like, for fundraising, just for for the for use, you know, so positive use and I enjoy, yeah, do I enjoy? Yeah, I enjoy that I might enjoy. I can wait for the gym because I, you know, in high school, I love you. Remember this, but me and Jamie kirkpatric, DJ all the time, that was a, like, a just seeing people reaction when you played a song that they like, yeah, I love the the joy of that community of like, of a of a song that they want to hear. And I there was a point where I knew where, what songs people loved, and I would get them in there, and I knew it, and I wanted to be, you know, and so it was, you know, it, it's all it's in here. It's that part of me of wanting to see the joy that's in here, this gym, building a nice facility, and like having classes that bring you up here, and like, and then bring you back down and you get exercise, you get mental break, you get a whole I'm pumped about all that shit. Like, that is like, that is what I'm most excited about. Like, I know people want to, like, secretly dance Tuesday at 9am I know they do, but you can't at Starbucks. You just can't. But like, there's going to be moments where we're going to be able to where, like, you know, you're gonna be in your own space, and you're gonna be in a safe place, and you're gonna be able to, like, fuck that was I needed that today, you know. So I'm really, like, excited about because exercise has really taught me all those things,
Allison: big, really, hardcore into exercising. Like, again, I remember this again, like, on on Facebook, a part of your journey where you really, yeah, started, like, taking it really seriously. Like, can you just talk a little bit about your journey with that too, totally, because, again, you were always athletic. I mean, yeah, you were always playing basketball and stuff. But I feel like, yeah, they hit another level at a certain point. Yeah, I was playing
Cemal: basketball, and my parents would let me play football, which I get as a parent now, of a kid that wants to play football and baseball wasn't really an option in high school and like, and then they got to high school and whatnot. So basketball was definitely there, but I was better at theater, so that kind of, that kind of took over, but I always played into the CYO leagues and whatnot. So I was good there. You know, fast forward into getting married and going in career and doing all that exercise. Definitely tailed off. And it was probably 2010 or 11 where I'm like, I'm going to start a basketball league. I'm weighing, I weigh 220 pounds. I'm overweight 220 i. Like, this is crazy, but I really want the place to play basketball, really, that's what I wanted to do. I have kids, so I don't want to, like, I want to make sure I'm there for the hard stuff, like diaper changes and daycare and all that. So I rented a gym sometime in 2010 2011 and on Thursday nights, and from nine to 11, and I said, I, I said, I'm paying for it, but I want people to come to play basketball from nine to 11, and we will, I will pay for it. And the only condition is that we're not going to, there's gonna be no complaining. We're gonna play for two hours. We're gonna run back and forth. If there's a whoever calls the file, there's a file, that's it. We move on and we play. So that went on for, I don't know, six, seven years, where we just play basketball every Thursday. And so that wasn't like, the hardcore part. Then I started going, then I started doing P 90x and t 25 okay, so I started doing that stuff, and I started doing it on the road. That's when I knew that. I was like, Okay, I'm serious about this, because I'm like, traveling to San Francisco, and I'm taking stuff with me, and I'm like, taking time out of my day in San Francisco and bringing clothes, and I'm going into the gym at the Marriott and doing a workout on my laptop. And then I got two or three people would go, like, are you working on Yes. So then that happened, and I was rolling with that. Then I joined a place in 2016 locally here that was group fitness, but in person, and they had all of it, and right there. And then, then I was like, All right, this is fucking great, right? I feel good. I'm getting better, in better shape. I'm, you know, the whole thing is just happening now. And so then that started my whole journey of taking classes. And when I then, when I would travel, I wouldn't do the P 90x in my hotel room or in the hotel gym. I would go to local soul cycles and all of the places that are now, like the orange theories of the world, all that stuff. I started doing everything, flywheel, Soul Cycle, berries, everything, the local place that would like you just read about, right? I would do their place. And so that's kind of like how it kind of snowballed, and I did personal training, then do all the stuff in the yoga and whatnot. So then
Cemal: fast forward to 20,
Cemal: and I'm working out, and I'm turning 50 that year, and, you know, I'm starting to break down. Like, I'm, you know, I can't move really well. And, like, it's taken me two or three days to, like, recover, to work out again, you know? And then, and then, okay, then back to go back to like, COVID happens, right? And so obviously, COVID shuts down, all of that shit, all the gyms, all the so then I'm doing peloton. I had a, I happened to buy a peloton in 19, so I got lucky. So I had the peloton bike, I had the peloton tread. I had I did zoom classes on, work on with personal trainers. And, you know, the community is, like, obviously, completely dismantled, right? You don't have anyone, because every community, whether you were, you know, book club or a cycling club, they're all gone. And so I knew, Okay, well, this is important, and exercise is important, because mentally, we're all fucking losing our minds, but exercise is helping us at least come back to somewhat of a center. And so then I started the recovery piece where I was not able to work out five, six days a week, because I was too sore. And I would go and do some recovery, and I was able to come back quicker, like, okay, but that was taking too much time. It was taking too much time to do all that, because I was a leader of a firm, and all that stuff was going on. And so I came up with this idea to combine workouts with recovery, just like I came up with the idea of combining the planes, you know, a sitcom on a stage, and putting commercials on stage and trying something different. And but the genesis of the whole thing was, I'm an executive. I know that I don't have time to do all this. I guarantee you that others don't. They're not doing it. So I want to make it an efficient process. I wanted people to come in and in 90 minutes, work out, recover, shower in a plate like in a nice place with good towels and good shampoos and good hair dryers, and feel good about the place I'm getting I'm pumping in, like, scents. Like, if you go to Vegas hotels, they have scents that they pump in, right? If you go to the Bellagio, smells like a big flower. I mean, that, like, we got our own signature Oswald cell. Oh, that's awesome. I mean, I'm drilling all the way my dad's dome is on the back, and it opens up half of it. So we'll day like the day you can work out outside. If it's snowing out, we'll close it up. We'll be working outside, working out outside, but it's gonna be snowing around us, and we'll be totally comfortable. It's just gonna be a whole different experience. And it's about the experience like i i have recognized this throughout my work. Kind of journey that it's about the experience. I think anything is like getting coffee is about the experience. I like. I don't like going to the drive through it, so it works. I like going in because I know it takes longer, but I just like walking in, like seeing the experience. So I'm trying to create an experience that's relatively efficient but is also effective, right? And that, and it's not fluff, I'm money grab. I hate the fucking money grabs that are out there, right? Like it's it. It bothers me as a consumer. It bothers me and it bothers me for other consumers, when I feel like it's just a, you know, like this is the only thing I have to do. So just going to the money grab, if that makes sense, but anyway, that's kind of, that's my journey basketball, to laying it online, man, I'm, I am literally dumping everything into it, just like, is it? And you
Allison: said it's happening soon, right? You said 30 days. Yeah.
Cemal: So I bought a building, so, so this is how it happened. Okay, two years ago, I come up with the idea. I talk about it. Okay, sounds like a good idea. I go to my broker, who real estate agent, or, here's my idea, who's a triathlete for bucks sake. So he's loving it, right? He's like, I don't have the perfect building. I'm like, shit. Pulls up. It's this building. And the way I describe it to people that don't live in Carmel, I live in Carmel, Indiana, is like, it's as if the mayor came to you and said, Hey, I heard about your idea. Pick any building in the city. Well, I'll get it for you, and you can do it there. And that's the building I have. Okay, that's the building that I have, right? It's like, it's incredible. It used to be an HVAC building vendor, and I bought it and turned it in. I kept the warehouse and I knocked down part of the building. It's on this walking trail. So we have more traffic on the walking trail that's your building than we do on the street in front of it, right? So it's going to be fucking awesome from that perspective. So that was two years ago. I had I left my firm unceremoniously in September of 21 and it was the same week that I was closing on the building. So I had to make a big decision, a big life. I was like, am I going to do this? Like? I had to really think about all the things. And I had a nice circle of friends that were like, Hey, you're doing it, and you'll be fine, and we will we will be your backs. I had several people that just took care of me, right? And, you know, from my parents to my friend Jeff, Charles and Bucha and, you know, and my friend Lauren, lots of people that, just like, really, were there for me. And frankly, I mean, if it wasn't for them and my therapist, it wouldn't, I probably wouldn't have done it, but so I did that, I took it, I bought the building, and it was a two year process of architects and permits and all the things that you hear about, but you know, you live it that I lived in. I went through all that stuff. So it's Yeah, fast forward two years later. Here I am, November 18. I think it's gonna be our first class, awesome. And I'm super pumped about it, you know? I mean, it's, I'm really proud of it, you know? I have this. I got a vision guy. I bought a lot of houses, remodeled them, and all that, and knocking walls down. You can see the lake, and they all come and it's cool. They all come out. They always come out better than what my vision is. And this is no exception. Like I have a vision for what this place could be. I put it together. I put it in the plans. We put it in motion. And as I go through there, and I'm pumped after this meeting, I'm going to go and look at progress for the day. They're doing the laying the floor down, they're putting they're doing they started landscaping today. Just, it's so cool to see. I'm a big, big transformation guy. I love transformations. I love seeing the transformations. And like so I'm pumped to see and this is just this transformation has been way beyond my wildest dreams of what it, what I thought it was going to be, you know, from my dad, like, the the dome, like, it's that's also, like, full circle, right? Like, my dad's dome is on the back of the building, like, this is, like, he's coming home from Turkey in a couple weeks, and I can't wait for him to, like, See, he designed it, like he, well, you know, he designed this dome to be on my like, this is his work, not just from 1984 but like this particular project, he moved the mouse on the auto CAD or whatever on the, you know, to design it and like, and my brother installed it, you know. And so my mom supported, and my sister supported all that. So it's, you. That part is cool, and, like, the business part, and then I don't know just that it's a cool and I'm rambling now, but like, it's a cool, full circle moment, and I'm really proud of, like, the the collective, the culmination from Lake Central, the lows all my friends, those community those those moments that have like in like, solidified what is important to me, like, community, hard work, persistence, consistency, following your heart, you know your gut, you know all that stuff like I there's a lot of things that are involved here that like are not exactly makes sense monetarily, like, you know that makes sense business wise. But you're like, man, you gotta do this. You gotta do that.
Cemal: I don't know it's hard to like,
Cemal: articulate or wrap this up in a way that's like, graceful, but like, my friends are really important to me, and I'm super excited about developing this community and giving people a place where they can develop relationships to help them grow in a way that however their whatever their journey is, telling them to do right, and supporting them and finding the people here to help them achieve it. I'm excited about all that shit, like that. Like, I excited about talking to people about, I'm excited about helping them think it through. I'm excited about connecting them to like, I don't know anything about flowers, but that motherfucker does right? Like, I'm excited about all that stuff. And so yeah, I just do what I've been doing for a company for 30 years, and like, doing it for myself. I think, you know, that's, that's the other part. It's like, I, I moved closer to the I moved to Carmel. I live further away. I moved here. I love this community as well, and
Cemal: I'm just pumped about it, you know, I'm just tell us
Allison: Where's where it's happening. Like, tell it. Tell us, for people who live in the Indianapolis, Carmel area, or people who are going to be passing through town for business, like, where do we find Oswald? Where do we where do we find out more about what's going on with you? Oswald
Cemal: fitness, com,
Cemal: Oswald fitness, Instagram and Oswald fitness, and then it's on the Monon at it's just south of Sun King and just north of Carmel drive. It's really in the heart of it all. And it's opening November 18, ish, we'll do like a soft open. We'll have several classes, but once it once we start hitting cruising altitude, it'll be 55 classes a week, and 11 private recovery rooms, like spa like locker rooms, plenty of showers, three showers in each. Dyson, hair dryers. We're working on the shampoos right now. All the girls that work for me, they're testing out the those shampoos, the dry shampoos, all the things that we need. Like, it's just going to be a place that you can come in and, like, knock stuff out. So, yeah, that's going to be 107 7/3, Avenue, Southwest in Carmel. I bought the old Williams comfort air building, and that's it. I can't
Allison: wait to check it out. I mean, I'm up here in Chicago, but I'm going to make the drive and come to my yoga class and, yeah, get get a massage and get some cryotherapy or whatever the excitement is. Yeah, because I'm I'm getting old and busted too. I need some help. I need some help with the little carcass. Um, Gemma, you're the best. Thank you for coming on and like being amazing and just bringing the energy that you bring. Because, again, you know you talk about being in community and, and, and that's, yeah, that is really what it's all about. And I think that it's easy to, like, we were talking about, you know, it's easy to think like, Oh, I like being on stage, so therefore I have to become an actor, you know, it's easy to have that idea that, like, you know, and it's like, and that, again, that was, like, an important part of your journey. I mean, thinking that I was going to be like, you know, like a script writer or whatever. I mean, that was part of my journey. But I think that also there, it's important to remember that that, like I was saying, that energy is never lost. You know that what you learn as a performer and being in community, in theater, whether you're a musician or a tech person or on stage or whatever you're doing, it's, it's the skill sets are so broad and they can go so many places. And I think, yeah, you're the living sort of example of that, that you've taken so much creativity that was spawned by theater and was spawned by that, but then also it has fertilized like just every area of your life in a really. Really beautiful way. Oh, that's nice. So thanks for, like, sharing your journey. And yeah, I'm super excited to see what happens when Oswald opens and when everyone in Indianapolis is just, like, getting
Cemal: pumped. It just reiterates to me, like, how important community is and how people need it. Like in COVID was a very clear example, like No guys, we need to be together, Yep, let's stay home for a minute so we get this fixed so we can come back together, because this is not good. Yeah, I need people. So 1:20:33 anyway, hi horse, Speaker 2 1:20:37 thanks so much. Allison, thank you. Jemi. Love you so much. Love you buddy.
Allison: Thanks again for listening to this episode of I'll follow you. Don't forget that you can always find show notes over on my website, Queen of peaches.com, links two and four previous episodes are listed there as well. While you're there, I hope you might find another episode that strikes your fancy. All my recordings are assembled in my home studio using the free, open source cross platform editing software, Audacity. I use a Logitech G Snowball iCE microphone and sure SRH 440 professional studio headphones. The theme music is from the song without you, written by Brian cremens and performed by the band 10 100. This podcast is made possible by the fact that I work a full time job, am happily married and don't have any children. That's what really goes on behind the scenes of this artistic life. You